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Romans 6:23 has all of the gospel in it. To close with eternal security John 9:28-29 no one can separate pluck you/me from God's hands

Amen! Eternal security John 9:28-29

I'm with you on that one, Bruno. So many have been taught it will be pre-tribulation rapture, which to me puts the church to sleep, suggesting that we will be out of here before the persecution begins. If you look at just a couple of Scriptures, like 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 where Paul tells that the anti-Christ, being spoken of here will be here first, and in Revelation 13:7 where he is given to him to make war with the saints and overcome them. Well, if the saints have been raptured, how can he make war with them and overcome them if they are gone??

Cool! And the term I use with the pre-trip rapture is that in makes many Christians lazy. Pastor Haggie on TV has a motto: "get up, pack up, because we're going up"... yeah, but not right now! Great references Lloyd - along with Rev 3:10 which get's misinterpeted that when "God keeps up from..." is we won't be here because God will take us out.. But what's interesting is the Greek word used here " tereo" - to keep, which is the same as John 17:15 which says: I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should KEEP them from the evil one - not only does Jesus tell God NOT to take us out, but to KEEP us safe UNTIL he comes again - same Greek word! If these verses where refering to a "Removal" it would be "Paraphero" but in Niether in the book of John or Revelation is the word paraphero used. This alone strong evidence that we're not going anywhere UNTIL it's over when it's over - and the rapture happens the exact same time Jesus returns.

So true, Bruno, and I love pastor Haggie but I believe he's of the pre-trib belief. He is one anointed preacher, that's for sure. And he has a passion for souls. I have friends who went to Toronto a few years ago to hear him preach. They said when he was off stage he was as quiet as a mouse and his wife did most of the talking but when he got up to preach he was a fire ball. Shows the anointing of God when he preaches. God bless.

Oh, I love pastor Haggie too - fire and brimstone! ( : He's pre-trib all the way, along with Jack Van Impe. Their both great preachers, I just don't agree with their Pre-trib rapture camp. I used to be a pre-tribur myself. But after being taught all 3 theologies, Post-Trib is the only one that made sense. My NKJV study bible is a great bible - but it's a pre-trib bible. So I asked my pastor/professor, with so much evidence that it will be a post-trib rapture, why don't they just change to correct it? His answer: Just like regular politics, there is such a thing as "Biblical Politics". If it an't broke, don't fix it. (but it is "broke"!). Oh well...

Ya, and I think we have way more than enough government politics, let alone bringing it into the church. That's the Bible I use too, Bruno, the NKJV study Bible and I actually got it through Benny Hinn's ministry. Getting pretty tattered now. I took it to see if I could get it rebound and they wanted $125, which was $50 more than I paid for it. Duct tape satisfied me. God bless.

Ha ha... my bible is falling apart too and I was thinking the same thing - about the same price! So instead I just shot a little "Elmers Glue All" in the binding and so far so good. But you know what they say: "A bible that is falling apart is about a life that is staying together" ( : God Bless. Bruno

Hi Allan! I have a questoin (if you read my comment)... when do you thihk the rapture will happen; before during or after the tribulaton period?

I know there is several different views on this. I would hope before - only because that is a personal preference. However, if during or after, I will trust that God will provide us the grace needed to deal with what will happen. Regardless of the timing, which is not a big issue for me, the key is to be ready and prepared for His return. I believe based on all that is going on in mid-east now, He could return at any time. Based on other prophecy, I believe it will be in my generation - I was born in 1948.

For me, I'd really like to be wrong on this one but I fully believe the rapture will be after the tribulation. Check 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 and Revelation 13:7 for two Scriptures that show the anti-Christ will be here first, before the rapture. Those 2 Scriptures being by two authors, Paul and John in that order. If the saints are gone in pre-trib rapture how can the anti-Christ, referred to in these, make war (13:7) and overcome?

Hi Allan. The good thing about "after" is that it's a double blessing; because if we go "before" then our ministry is over. But if it is "after" then many more you come in contact with can still have the hope we do because 1) how bad things are and 2) your faith. So the only "chance" our loved ones have is to come to Christ through our witnessing al the way up unto the end.

Amen... continue to serve to the end!